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Since we are all about credits, I should say slides two and three are Sarah’s work.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Feb 21, 2022, at 1:09 PM, Ruth Duerr <ruth.duerr3@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> I love version 3 of Rama/s diagram; but I wish I remembered which was the 5th analyzed group. Was it educational resources? Nancy?
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<div class="">I fixed one small thing on the diagram.</div>
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<div class="">On Feb 18, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Daniel S. Katz via Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org" class="">esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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I think it looks fairly good.
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<div class="">My one thought is to somehow show that some things didn't work and that's the reason we went to the next thing.</div>
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<div class="">Dan<br class="">
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<div class="">On Feb 18, 2022, at 3:48 PM, Hampapuram Ramapriyan <<a href="mailto:hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com" class="">hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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All,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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I have taken a shot at a figure. All of you should have permission to comment. Here is the link -<a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cLY265_iM77zzlgW34WrRa7Wcv17_yfqL49JqX7tohg/edit#slide=id.p" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cLY265_iM77zzlgW34WrRa7Wcv17_yfqL49JqX7tohg/edit#slide=id.p</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Please let me know what you think. As I said, I am not a good artist, but I wanted to put down at least approximately what I had in mind.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Thanks.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Rama. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sarah Ramdeen <<a href="mailto:sarah.ramdeen@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">sarah.ramdeen@gmail.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, February 16, 2022 10:30 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Hampapuram Ramapriyan <<a href="mailto:hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lesley Wyborn <<a href="mailto:lesley.wyborn@anu.edu.au" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">lesley.wyborn@anu.edu.au</a>>; Mark Parsons <<a href="mailto:parsonsm.work@icloud.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">parsonsm.work@icloud.com</a>>;
Daniel S. Katz <<a href="mailto:dskatz@illinois.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">dskatz@illinois.edu</a>>; Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Esip-citationguidelines] [EXTERNAL] EOS article for discussion tomorrow<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Rama - a mixture of a flowchart and some images? Do you mean for the entire project or just the narrowing of the original objects from 24 possible to 9 clusters, to 5/6 object types, to the current focus on data?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Brief timeline from reviewing the meeting notes (which might help scope what should be included). As I was not part of this group from the beginning, I may be oversimplifying or missing some aspects, so grain of salt.... <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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ESIP created<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fdoi.org%2f10.6084%2fm9.figshare.8441816.v1&c=E,1,u9ag-BK7CKLTKdd6HQIsVeC5XwM7eT9P1L7wdp3C3PZjyYuO4vEYhiHYgeYTdLbg9iGHD44nhgnnqXWvfpZZhz36zN7GNogXXFC2AEfKw0ri9bc,&typo=1" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">data
citation guidelines</a><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
In 2018 this group "recognized a need to update citation guidelines wrt to PIDs and Enabling FAIR project.. CODATA says: Citation = reference for credit and access. BUT, it’s also used for all kinds of other things (impact, provenance, evaluation etc) and is
citation the way to do that?" (<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/18ooEixbchKp-qgAG7qtnebKrWDYsutt4d2eX3HsaWls/edit?usp=sharing" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">meeting notes</a>, page 39)<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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"Central question(s): Can we define general guidelines for citation of all research objects? Do we need to separate credit and access? "<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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Did some preliminary work with<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rh-M4WV9kqcxGWuYYC6R39cBaKxwoW9F3KS7y_sZpNw/edit?usp=sharing" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">scenarios</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XCo1eVxyLarCjQsn2bkHvNd9zDFC3RLj-6zAZ1Fu6Jg/edit?usp=sharing" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mapping
metadata</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>standards (for machines)<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<b class="">Group really kicked off in 2019 - with plans to develop use case and object matrix (Credit/Different object types)</b><o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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<b class="">Created a matrix with research objects and the roles needed for reproducibility (with at least 24 different objections/concepts)</b><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<b class="">This was narrowed to 9 clusters of object types</b><o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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Mark presented a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https://agu.confex.com/agu/fm19/mediafile/Handout/Paper612014/AGU%2520-%2520iPosterSessions.com.pdf" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">poster
on the topic at AGU</a><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
In 2020, began considerations on CRediT (<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/18ooEixbchKp-qgAG7qtnebKrWDYsutt4d2eX3HsaWls/edit?usp=sharing" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">meeting notes</a>, page 26)<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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"Begin to work through the credit use case — how do the CRedIT, ISO and other attribution descriptions apply to the different research artifacts?"<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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<b class="">Work begins to narrow to 5/6 object types</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(Data, Software, Physical Artifacts/Samples, Semantics, and Instruments [instruments sometimes switched with Education Objects])<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
Activities/evidence begins to indicate CRediT doesn't work<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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Identifying activities from object types for each CRediT role<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
Determining where the role would be cited (citations, acknowledgements, other documentation/metadata)<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
Ranking each role as important or not to this community<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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Given the amount of work needed,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">decide to focus on one object type</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>- Data<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
Inspiration for paper - based on the growing support for CRediT and its lack of fit for our world, what is the next step, where do we want to go next?<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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Thanks!<br class="">
Sarah<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 8:08 AM Hampapuram Ramapriyan via Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Yes – I would like it to be a flow diagram that shows the process we used to narrow down our considerations to data as the research artifact and authorship as the focus. I can’t claim artistic proficiency though.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Rama.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lesley Wyborn <<a href="mailto:lesley.wyborn@anu.edu.au" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">lesley.wyborn@anu.edu.au</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, February 15, 2022 2:50 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mark Parsons <<a href="mailto:parsonsm.work@icloud.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">parsonsm.work@icloud.com</a>>; Hampapuram Ramapriyan <<a href="mailto:hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Daniel S. Katz <<a href="mailto:dskatz@illinois.edu" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">dskatz@illinois.edu</a>>; Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Esip-citationguidelines] [EXTERNAL] EOS article for discussion tomorrow<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Is this diagram in addition to the “</span><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Provide an eye-catching, landscape-oriented photograph to lead the story.”</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in;" class=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in;" class=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">If so, for the eye catching photograph could someone do a mock up that looks like movie credits, e.g.,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><span id="cid:image001.png@01D824CE.29749A00" class=""><image001.png></span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in;" class=""><span lang="EN-AU" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB" class="">We could replace the image with an image that is used to advertise some database/dataset</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB" class="">BTW – in searching for this image, I found this reference:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.evercast.us%2fblog%2ffilm-credits&c=E,1,qJ_VmEHS-1FHu92X_klR1vL2Ihxe1n3KqDKAKQdfSa5Yrow3fqqeD1chgdBC8YxyzWXPqsu7rvQk_v_8KGWy4ySrQumGsEXelV88m7foH6f4TEV6jvzXuMPF&typo=1" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.evercast.us/blog/film-credits</a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB" class="">Take care</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-GB" class="">Lesley</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<b class=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines-bounces@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citationguidelines-bounces@lists.esipfed.org</a>>
on behalf of Mark Parsons via Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Reply to:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark Parsons <<a href="mailto:parsonsm.work@icloud.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">parsonsm.work@icloud.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Wednesday, 16 February 2022 at 5:37 am<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Hampapuram Ramapriyan <<a href="mailto:hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Daniel S. Katz" <<a href="mailto:dskatz@illinois.edu" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">dskatz@illinois.edu</a>>, Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Esip-citationguidelines] [EXTERNAL] EOS article for discussion tomorrow</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">I’m having a hard time picturing such a diagram, but if someone wants to take a shot….</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">cheers,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">-m. </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">On Feb 15, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Hampapuram Ramapriyan <<a href="mailto:hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">hampapuram.ramapriya@ssaihq.com</a>> wrote:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">I think the paper is looking good as well. I made only a couple of comments. A “big” acknowledgement section seems appropriate.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">One question is whether we should have diagram that shows the culling down process we went through. Reading through the paragraphs makes it sound complicated and generally gives a negative impression – as if we were almost giving
up hope with the problem being too difficult to handle.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Rama.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<b class=""><span lang="EN-AU" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-AU" class=""> Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines-bounces@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citationguidelines-bounces@lists.esipfed.org</a>> <b class="">On
Behalf Of </b>Daniel S. Katz via Esip-citationguidelines<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 15, 2022 5:48 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Mark Parsons <<a href="mailto:parsonsm.work@icloud.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">parsonsm.work@icloud.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [Esip-citationguidelines] EOS article for discussion tomorrow</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Hi Mark,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">This looks pretty good to me. I've suggested a few edits, and made a few comments.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Dan</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">On Feb 14, 2022, at 5:18 PM, Mark Parsons via Esip-citationguidelines <<a href="mailto:esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citationguidelines@lists.esipfed.org</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Friends,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">The document is in good shape. <a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1qsPuPkc4Hockej1wy9LrlzHfg0p42MwOURdTMVDWZ_c%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=04%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7C10983512aba04512398608d9f0b234f6%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C637805470474183335%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2B9XKZYgQ0B6NnfcHc75QNB3e1gO0NspzZe%2BtzxqoNvQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qsPuPkc4Hockej1wy9LrlzHfg0p42MwOURdTMVDWZ_c/edit?usp=sharing</a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Here’s the latest.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Thank you to Dan and Sarah for offering alternative first paragraphs. A couple people liked Sarah’s paragraph so a lightly edited version of that is what is in place now. Others are still welcome to offer an alternative.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span lang="EN-AU" class="">I cleaned up the discussion of the work we did and tried to introduce it more clearly.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span lang="EN-AU" class="">I accepted/rejected all the various minor edits. Thanks all.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span lang="EN-AU" class="">I considered adding something about how the paper is the work of dozens and how this is ironically belied by the five author limit, but we are hitting the word limit, and I couldn’t figure out a way to do it elegantly. (The EOS editors
would probably kill it anyway).</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Instead I think we need an extensive acknowledgements section. I started to list people involved in all the CRediT roles. Please review. (I hope acknowledgements are not part of the word limit)</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span lang="EN-AU" class="">I asked AGU about including authors who need agency review and we can still do that.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">cheers,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">-m. </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">On Feb 10, 2022, at 5:48 PM, Mark Parsons <<a href="mailto:parsonsm.work@icloud.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">parsonsm.work@icloud.com</a>> wrote:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Hi all,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Thanks for the lively discussion today. Notes at </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class=""><a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F18ooEixbchKp-qgAG7qtnebKrWDYsutt4d2eX3HsaWls%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=04%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7C10983512aba04512398608d9f0b234f6%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C637805470474183335%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZpmVSahoaXUDUzMdR4jWkvMCG38Ym9bqYfVcQY5pxok%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://docs.google.com/document/d/18ooEixbchKp-qgAG7qtnebKrWDYsutt4d2eX3HsaWls/edit?usp=sharing</a> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">I have cleaned up the current version of the manuscript based on our discussion and my review of some of the smaller editorial changes.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class=""><a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1qsPuPkc4Hockej1wy9LrlzHfg0p42MwOURdTMVDWZ_c%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=04%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7C10983512aba04512398608d9f0b234f6%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C637805470474183335%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2B9XKZYgQ0B6NnfcHc75QNB3e1gO0NspzZe%2BtzxqoNvQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qsPuPkc4Hockej1wy9LrlzHfg0p42MwOURdTMVDWZ_c/edit?usp=sharing</a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">We will meet again next Thursday, 17 Feb. at 14:30 Mountain time to finalize things on our regular Zoom channel. I’ll send an invite</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Meanwhile, <b class="">everyone</b> should consider writing a new first paragraph and teaser. Do like Dan did and just insert an alternative paragraph. Don’t edit the current version.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">I will also try and introduce and tighten up the paragraphs describing the work we did over the several meetings. I will also add something about the full authorship and the great irony that we are limited to five. </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Next meeting we should:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">1. Finalize the manuscript</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">2. Agree on a title (probably not film credits)</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">3. Finalize authorship — note AGU guidance states: “Authors listed in the byline must be those who <i class="">actually write</i> the manuscript.” (Their emphasis)</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">cheers,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">-m. </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">On Feb 9, 2022, at 11:14 AM, Mark Parsons <<a href="mailto:parsonsm.work@icloud.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">parsonsm.work@icloud.com</a>> wrote:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">I’m sending this again. It seems we have two mailing lists</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">cheers,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">-m. </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Begin forwarded message:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<b class=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">From: </span></b><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Mark Parsons <<a href="mailto:parsonsm.work@icloud.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">parsonsm.work@icloud.com</a>></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<b class=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Subject: EOS article for discussion tomorrow</span></b><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<b class=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Date: </span></b><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">February 9, 2022 at 9:31:08 AM MST</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<b class=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">To: </span></b><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">ESIP Research Object Citation Cluster <<a href="mailto:esip-citations@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">esip-citations@lists.esipfed.org</a>></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" class="">Hi all,<br class="">
<br class="">
Coming in at the 11th hour, here is a first draft of the EOS article for discussion at our Cluster call tomorrow. Edit at will.<br class="">
<a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1qsPuPkc4Hockej1wy9LrlzHfg0p42MwOURdTMVDWZ_c%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=04%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7C10983512aba04512398608d9f0b234f6%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C637805470474183335%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2B9XKZYgQ0B6NnfcHc75QNB3e1gO0NspzZe%2BtzxqoNvQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qsPuPkc4Hockej1wy9LrlzHfg0p42MwOURdTMVDWZ_c/edit?usp=sharing</a><br class="">
<br class="">
As a reminder I include our original proposal, the reviewer comments, and our response below.<br class="">
<br class="">
You may also want to review the EOS article guidelines: <br class="">
<a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttps%253a%252f%252feos.org%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2021%252f03%252fEos_Author_Guidelines_Nov2020.pdf%26c%3DE%2C1%2C-1pr5k5Ar0-i0gl-bapBFMiXVsBQufIB4z2apmX-CmJh_OzW0-1Cn_N6j-4MLbaEPbSPJ7ciRM8TxvWNdsy86Jm40d9qAiCmYVDE4I80SBq_HiHjCFJsu4s%2C%26typo%3D1&data=04%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7C10983512aba04512398608d9f0b234f6%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C637805470474183335%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=q9%2BvBM1WcJZo0hV54uGtrUemHUHjaKIN5zsx%2Bfh1tg4%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://eos.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Eos_Author_Guidelines_Nov2020.pdf</a><br class="">
<br class="">
I look forward to the discussion tomorrow<br class="">
<br class="">
cheers,<br class="">
<br class="">
-m. <br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
From: <a href="mailto:eos@agu.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">eos@agu.org</a><br class="">
To: Web Production<br class="">
Date: July 15, 2021 at 6:48am<br class="">
Eos Proposal Review - Mark Parsons<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear Dr. Parsons,<br class="">
We are pleased to accept your proposal for an Eos article on “Film credits for science.”<br class="">
<br class="">
Please read the following instructions to ensure your article is produced in an easy and timely manner.<br class="">
We look forward to working together and publishing your work.<br class="">
—Eos<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________<br class="">
What happens next?<br class="">
<br class="">
* Within the next business day, you’ll receive an invitation to Basecamp, our editorial platform.<br class="">
* Within the next 3 business days, Eos science editor Tim Oleson will contact you through Basecamp with our author guide and specific advice as you begin writing your manuscript.<br class="">
* Once you submit a completed first draft, your article will enter our editing queue and an editor will return a first round of feedback as soon as possible.<br class="">
* The editorial staff will work with you until your article is finalized and passed on to the production staff to publish.<br class="">
* You’ll receive an automated email as soon as your article is published on <a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fEos.org%26c%3DE%2C1%2CABNNe0jTcQlCY8nUsKuAxPeydwDGgmAnkYCsdaspcKbgazHI8L6lPkheydQi-0SPldZSHQcqFVz38gUzasH8zkKqKY2Gq2v8rw6F5wWdAU7V28g%2C%26typo%3D1&data=04%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7C10983512aba04512398608d9f0b234f6%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C637805470474183335%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=uX%2BWGycGvz9oyPeSjsxm5Tey38CcNN8POL%2ByRdE3nNQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Eos.org</a>.<br class="">
* Your article may be considered for the print version of Eos anytime in the next six months. If it is selected, you’ll be notified at the beginning of the issue production process.<br class="">
<br class="">
What should I know before I begin writing my manuscript?<br class="">
<br class="">
* Do not begin writing until<br class="">
* Tim Oleson contacts you on Basecamp and you read his guidance as well as the Author Guide he’ll send you.<br class="">
* You read the comments below from the Science Adviser, who may have instructions for you.<br class="">
* You have reviewed articles of the same type on <a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fEos.org%26c%3DE%2C1%2C6sUw0EEe9D8KUEMOiDzeakaPPYe1b59lf_w3KcUoBSVDCeEvOwnpjx3JrG0-QqAdriL38QGJ4rHV7HtZUm9V-IFzKj_Kt1Vm0-poKyZDHfCZirZxTYyFLg%2C%2C%26typo%3D1&data=04%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7C10983512aba04512398608d9f0b234f6%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C637805470474183335%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=eIf8TV5Z3Suedcz%2BH4VzPjKBR6WCT6a%2FevBfNHWvzx4%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Eos.org</a> and
understand the basic format of these articles.<br class="">
* Your manuscript, in part or whole, should not have been published previously in print or online, or submitted elsewhere for publication.<br class="">
* Your editor may request draft revisions and may perform substantive editing.<br class="">
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How do I use Basecamp?<br class="">
<br class="">
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What about coauthors (if applicable)?<br class="">
<br class="">
* You, the corresponding author, are the liaison between Eos and your coauthors.<br class="">
* You are responsible for notifying them of this acceptance and that only you will work in Basecamp.<br class="">
* You are responsible for making sure all authors listed on the manuscript have agreed to publication of its final accepted form.<br class="">
* You may add or swap authors after this acceptance, but the total number of authors is limited to 5. No exceptions.<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________<br class="">
Reviewer #1 Comments:<br class="">
The authors propose a brief description about a new initiative to increase the visibility and impact of Earth science data sets and data products. This has been a big issue over the years in seismology and many people do feel that their data products (e.g.,
a catalog of earthquake locations and sizes) are undervalued in the research community. The assignment of doi's to data centers and data sets has alleviated this a little, however at the end of the day the onus falls on journal editors to enforce citation
to relevant data products. I think the battle is being won, but it is progressing very slowly. Anyway, I would be interested in reading a short update on this issue as proposed by the authors. The good news is it would apply to all sections with AGU; the bad
news is that will mainly be interesting to practicing scientists and won't have as big an impact on the broader Eos readership of the Earth science interested public.<br class="">
<br class="">
Reviewer #2 Comments:<br class="">
The idea of implementing alternative structures or means to offer credit and recognize contributions in science is intriguing and, other than one or two articles making a case for improved citation of data sets that we’ve featured, isn’t something we’ve covered
in depth recently. So I generally like this proposal despite, as Keith points out, that it may be of limited interest to non-scientists.<br class="">
However, I’d suggest going back to the authors to ask for some elaboration on what they are proposing as far as workable alternatives to current approaches for designating authorship, credit, etc., or at least as first steps to begin coming up with alternatives.
(If they’re just pointing out a problem without offering any potential solutions, I don’t think Eos is the right venue.) They say that the “ESIP Citation Cluster advocates a new way to think about the roles and credit for all the people involved in producing
useful scientific artifacts,” but it’s not clear what this new way entails—other than perhaps that it uses the film credit analogy as a starting point. Can they give more information so we know more about what their article would look like?<br class="">
If they do have alternative approaches or ideas to offer, I also think it’ll be important in a potential article to acknowledge if there are possible drawbacks. For instance, much as film credits can drag on for many minutes (and surely must take a lot of time
and effort to compile in their own right), I can imagine such credit listings (e.g., for a published article) could become quite lengthy and involve significant time to assemble depending on how widely credit is extended.<br class="">
<br class="">
Reviewer #2’s Comments on Proposer’s Response to Query<br class="">
I see now that they're not necessarily advocating specific or one-size-fits-all solutions, but they do plan to summarize the "state of the art for several artifact types" and "discuss roles that should be considered, principles for how they should be evaluated,
and suggestions for what constitutes “authorship” in a data citation," which is the sort of value add in this discussion I was looking for and asking about. Their reply ticks the box for me.<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________<br class="">
Production Notes<br class="">
<br class="">
Project Name: OP Parsons FilmCredits<br class="">
Topic: n/a<br class="">
Index: 1900<br class="">
_______________________________<br class="">
<br class="">
Parsons Mark<br class="">
Affiliation:<br class="">
University of Alabama in Huntsville<br class="">
<br class="">
email:<br class="">
<a href="mailto:map0046@uah.edu" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">map0046@uah.edu</a><<a href="mailto:map0046@uah.edu" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:map0046@uah.edu</a>><br class="">
<br class="">
Coauthors:<br class="">
Madison Langseth, USGS<br class="">
<br class="">
Content type:<br class="">
Opinion<br class="">
<br class="">
Proposed title:<br class="">
Film credits for science<br class="">
<br class="">
Topic(s):<br class="">
Informatics, scholarly communication and credit<br class="">
<br class="">
Reviewer preference<br class="">
Kirk Martinez<br class="">
<br class="">
Key points:<br class="">
Credit is the currency of science. This has traditionally been primarily done through citation but also through awards and various other means informal and informal, including the names of geo features, instruments, methods, etc. There is increasing recognition
that roles need to be more-clearly specified (e.g. the Contributor Roles Taxonomy--CRediT) and that research artifacts other than articles also deserve credit (data, code, methods...). It is important to credit people for all kinds of work and products in
science, but that’s difficult. Citation is only one mechanism because there are different roles which need to be credited differently for different artifacts. It can actually get quite complex. The analogy of film credits is often used: Key roles listed at
the beginning of the movie and numerous supporting roles listed at the end. What may not be evident is that the order, prominence, and categories of these roles come from a highly negotiated, complex process involving agents, unions, contracts, etc. Can we
do something similar for science but simpler? The ESIP Citation Cluster advocates a new way to think about the roles and credit for all the people involved in producing useful scientific artifacts. We need a fuller and more formal method for recognizing appropriate
roles in the production of all first-class research objects.<br class="">
<br class="">
Article's importance to Eos readers<br class="">
In the era of open science, people deserve to be credited for all their intellectual contributions. AGU has begun to recognize this with the use of CRediT for journal articles and the growing requirement for data and software citation, but the issue is even
more complex.<br class="">
<br class="">
Broader impacts:<br class="">
Open science requires greater recognition for all contributions not just papers.<br class="">
<br class="">
Employer review required?<br class="">
No<br class="">
<br class="">
Proposer’s Response to Query<br class="">
<br class="">
Thank you for your feedback.<br class="">
<br class="">
In response to the comments from Reviewer 2: Our key finding is that there are multiple roles that need to be credited and they differ by research artifact. Therefore the “opinion” of the piece is that these roles need to be identified and credited. Current
mechanisms do not fully allow this and not all creditable roles are deserving of “authorship” and citation but should still be captured somewhere.<br class="">
<br class="">
We have found that different approaches are necessary for different types of research artifacts. For example, we reviewed how CRediT roles might apply to data, software, semantic artifacts, physical samples, and complex learning objects. We found that CReidT
didn’t really work for any of the artifacts, but it didn’t work in different ways. Moreover, different communities are taking different approaches and some are more mature than others. We will summarize what we see as the current state of the art for several
artifact types and discuss data in more detail.<br class="">
<br class="">
We don’t have a fully prescribed solution because credit is very contextual thing, but we will discuss roles that should be considered, principles for how they should be evaluated, and suggestions for what constitutes “authorship” in a data citation.<br class="">
<br class="">
We will acknowledge that this can add complexity (a potential drawback) but we think it is appropriate because it also aids openness and accountability.<br class="">
<br class="">
Our goal is not to promote a particular credit methodology or taxonomy at this point but rather to make a call for reconsidering how we provide credit in science along with some guidelines on how to do so.<br class="">
<br class="">
All this in 1500 words :-)<br class="">
<br class="">
I hope that clarifies.<br class="">
<br class="">
cheers,<br class="">
<br class="">
-m.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Daniel S. Katz<br class="">
Chief Scientist, NCSA<br class="">
Research Associate Professor, CS<br class="">
Research Associate Professor, ECE<br class="">
Research Associate Professor, iSchool<br class="">
University of Illinois<br class="">
(217) 244-8000<br class="">
<a href="mailto:d.katz@ieee.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">d.katz@ieee.org</a> or <a href="mailto:dskatz@illinois.edu" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">dskatz@illinois.edu</a><br class="">
<a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttps%253a%252f%252fdanielskatz.org%26c%3DE%2C1%2Cr25y4sol_HL_tVrNG1deiwypUeqXue7zsb3qXLCLs2cwtRNRNMU14BEGsJcPIAykj17j2o0sQOP2hLx_8df6ANz5PZVvP6nZsX9xfVUBZMjv6ywIiBR8%26typo%3D1&data=04%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7C10983512aba04512398608d9f0b234f6%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C637805470474183335%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DafqpOblcnzLqOhm7rM%2BtL95hGQFAM6bTy%2F4twDexME%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://danielskatz.org</a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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