[Esip-sample-curation] Esip-sample-curation Digest, Vol 23, Issue 4
Lesley Wyborn
Lesley.Wyborn at anu.edu.au
Tue Feb 28 17:22:25 EST 2023
Hi Rorie
Thanks for this.
The parent child relationship you describe seems to refer to the common assignment of a parent and child relationships that have been available within IGSN for a long time. I always assumed that this was for a permanent relationship – say someone has a bore hole (feature of interest with IGSN) from which many cores can be taken (each idenfitied with an IGSN) and then each core is subsampled (nore IGSNs). That is the hierarchy is established as part of the assigning identifiers “at the birth” of the sample/
As you note, the use case we are trying to cover in the Complex Citation WG is more complex and involved say where say a museum/researcher has a collection hundreds of samples each with a unique identifier.
When a researcher makes a particular subcollection of these for a specific publication that is when the ‘Reliquary’ is made. From museum or researcher collections, multiple reliquaries can be made from a set of samples each of which has its own indentifier.
Take care
Lesley
From: Esip-sample-curation <esip-sample-curation-bounces at lists.esipfed.org> on behalf of Rorie Edmunds via Esip-sample-curation <esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org>
Date: Tuesday, 28 February 2023 at 3:17 pm
To: esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org <esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org>
Subject: Re: [Esip-sample-curation] Esip-sample-curation Digest, Vol 23, Issue 4
Dear Colleagues,
I am a member of the RDA Complex Citation WG and will happily be involved.
I would also like to point out that in the case of material samples, citation of lists can already be done, although maybe in a rather less sophisticated way. Put simply, IGSN IDs can be used for sample aggregates/collections, and so one could easily add an IGSN ID to each sample, and then one to the list whereby individuals are linked as children through the relationType attribute<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.datacite.org%2Fdocs%2Fconnecting-to-works&data=05%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Ccdfc9f33c8594bee3aac08db1942b927%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131546609754669%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jkEvwE1adeh5P0zpHhcB4%2BIhxOswDTdtSQwxLTxcB0A%3D&reserved=0> of the relatedIndentifier property in the DataCite Metadata Schema. A list built in this way would of course not have the flexibility envisioned by the 'reliquary' concept, but at least would/could be fairly standardized.
Best wishes,
Rorie
P.S. I apologize that I am not actively engaged in the Sample Curation Cluster. I really would like to be as the outcomes of the work are very important for the IGSN ID. However, the meetings are currently at 05:00 JST and move to 04:00 JST for the coming months. If we can find a way for me to be more connected, it would be great. [Val, maybe you and I need a chat(?)]
--
Rorie Edmunds PhD | Samples Community Manager | DataCite
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On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 at 09:14, <esip-sample-curation-request at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation-request at lists.esipfed.org>> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Sample list tool? (Joan Damerow)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 16:13:14 -0800
From: Joan Damerow <JoanDamerow at lbl.gov<mailto:JoanDamerow at lbl.gov>>
To: Lesley Wyborn <Lesley.Wyborn at anu.edu.au<mailto:Lesley.Wyborn at anu.edu.au>>
Cc: "Mansur, Adam" <MansurA at si.edu<mailto:MansurA at si.edu>>,
"esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org>"
<esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org>>, Shelley Stall
<SStall at agu.org<mailto:SStall at agu.org>>, Martina Stockhause <stockhause at dkrz.de<mailto:stockhause at dkrz.de>>, Deborah
Agarwal <daagarwal at lbl.gov<mailto:daagarwal at lbl.gov>>, Kristina Vrouwenvelder
<kvrouwenvelder at agu.org<mailto:kvrouwenvelder at agu.org>>, "Stephen M Richard (smrTucson at gmail.com<mailto:smrTucson at gmail.com>)"
<smrtucson at gmail.com<mailto:smrtucson at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Esip-sample-curation] Sample list tool?
Message-ID:
<CAHwcauvLXaFNW7cD7-z6MCRSENBMPCzmdBMuVWvG3k9fzCQ1RA at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAHwcauvLXaFNW7cD7-z6MCRSENBMPCzmdBMuVWvG3k9fzCQ1RA at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Yes, I am also interested in working through samples use cases for complex
citations.
Joan
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 3:35?PM Lesley Wyborn via Esip-sample-curation <
esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org>> wrote:
> Hi Adam
>
>
>
> I see you are already a member of the mailing list for the RDA Complex
> Citation Group. <https://www.rd-alliance.org/node/74222/members<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fnode%2F74222%2Fmembers&data=05%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Ccdfc9f33c8594bee3aac08db1942b927%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131546609910884%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cd8rtEJ5P%2Fdeogdsdx3uX%2F29KIDjmYQInsdLoGIYIZE%3D&reserved=0>>
>
>
>
> If you would like to progress the Physical Samples Use case that would be
> great ? is anyone else in the ESIP samples cluster interested in doing
> this. Is anyone from iSamples on this mailing list?
>
>
>
> At the moment, as you can see in the Complex Citation WG Case Statement
> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroup%2Fearth-space-and-environmental-science-complex-citations-working-group%2Fcase-statement%2Fearth&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222225143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UbJ732tGbfJ8V119799W9%2FRkp7gmOVI91HNjwldxCpE%3D&reserved=0<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroup%2Fearth-space-and-environmental-science-complex-citations-working-group%2Fcase-statement%2Fearth&data=05%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Ccdfc9f33c8594bee3aac08db1942b927%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131546609910884%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2Q9dSwlvnUGCT3eNmSR2h6ruzUi5icNczWPeTuxY6sA%3D&reserved=0>>,
> the physical samples use case is woefully under developed relative to the
> three main ones, so we would need to start to develop something to match
> these.
>
>
>
> As the geochemistry use case is not really a topic for this samples list,
> I will email you separately ? is anyone else interested in the geochemistry
> use case we are trying to develop as part of this RDA Complex Citation
> Group?
>
>
>
> Take care
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lesley
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Mansur, Adam <MansurA at si.edu<mailto:MansurA at si.edu>>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 28 February 2023 at 8:53 am
> *To: *Lesley Wyborn <Lesley.Wyborn at anu.edu.au<mailto:Lesley.Wyborn at anu.edu.au>>,
> esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org> <
> esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org>>, Shelley Stall <SStall at agu.org<mailto:SStall at agu.org>>,
> Martina Stockhause <stockhause at dkrz.de<mailto:stockhause at dkrz.de>>, Deborah Agarwal <
> daagarwal at lbl.gov<mailto:daagarwal at lbl.gov>>, Kristina Vrouwenvelder <kvrouwenvelder at agu.org<mailto:kvrouwenvelder at agu.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: Sample list tool?
>
> Hi Lesley,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the info! Yes, we're talking about the same thing, except your
> version seems to be much better developed. I would be interested in working
> on the sample and geochemistry use cases in whatever capacity would be
> useful.
>
>
>
> Adam
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Lesley Wyborn <Lesley.Wyborn at anu.edu.au<mailto:Lesley.Wyborn at anu.edu.au>>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2023 1:21 PM
> *To:* Mansur, Adam <MansurA at si.edu<mailto:MansurA at si.edu>>;
> esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org> <
> esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org>>; Shelley Stall <SStall at agu.org<mailto:SStall at agu.org>>;
> Martina Stockhause <stockhause at dkrz.de<mailto:stockhause at dkrz.de>>; Deborah Agarwal <
> daagarwal at lbl.gov<mailto:daagarwal at lbl.gov>>; Kristina Vrouwenvelder <kvrouwenvelder at agu.org<mailto:kvrouwenvelder at agu.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: Sample list tool?
>
>
>
> *External Email - Exercise Caution*
>
> HI Adam
>
>
>
> Thanks for this suggestion.
>
>
>
> I would draw your attention to the newly formed Research Data Alliance
> Complex Citation Working Group
> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroups%2Fcomplex-citations-working-group&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222068920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1ks3iJp2wFa%2BWj0UyuBnkTtA5ka5Q0bZrHIpJiO99fU%3D&reserved=0<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroups%2Fcomplex-citations-working-group&data=05%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Ccdfc9f33c8594bee3aac08db1942b927%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131546609910884%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zHCZ3Hx29W8sNXRTT91GE8wSLmBqk1dkS0VmvrkniYI%3D&reserved=0>>.
> I have cc?ed on my email my group co- chairs (Shelley, Martina, Deb)
>
>
>
> The physical samples use case is listed in the Complex Citation WG Case
> Statement
> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroup%2Fearth-space-and-environmental-science-complex-citations-working-group%2Fcase-statement%2Fearth&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222225143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UbJ732tGbfJ8V119799W9%2FRkp7gmOVI91HNjwldxCpE%3D&reserved=0<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroup%2Fearth-space-and-environmental-science-complex-citations-working-group%2Fcase-statement%2Fearth&data=05%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Ccdfc9f33c8594bee3aac08db1942b927%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131546609910884%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2Q9dSwlvnUGCT3eNmSR2h6ruzUi5icNczWPeTuxY6sA%3D&reserved=0>>
> and will also be discussed in the upcoming RDA P20 Session - Complex
> Citation WG Session
> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fplenaries%2Frda-20th-plenary-meeting-gothenburg-hybrid%2Fcomplex-citations-earth-and-space-sciences&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222225143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a33%2FalYSGx8t5yPR0YUK7pMAx%2FVe1%2B8E0VwhQyQZOgc%3D&reserved=0<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fplenaries%2Frda-20th-plenary-meeting-gothenburg-hybrid%2Fcomplex-citations-earth-and-space-sciences&data=05%7C01%7Clesley.wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Ccdfc9f33c8594bee3aac08db1942b927%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131546609910884%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7bZ15xkVivhUGfLUL9YKuSeFCOGwLwisIvoAm8IODWw%3D&reserved=0>>
> .
>
>
>
> I have been the one that put forward a use case for physical samples ?
> that is, we need to create a ?reliquary? that references say hundreds of
> samples each with their own DOI/PID. A reliquary itself has a DOI/PID, but
> all samples within the reliquary can be found, referenced and cited so that
> the collector of the sample, the curator of the sample and the funder of
> any part of the samples life cycle (including from the field to the
> museum/sample repository) can be credited and both funders and researchers
> can measure the use and impact of their research
>
>
>
> I think we are talking about the same thing.
>
>
>
> We have quite a community behind this Complex Citation WG (see list at end
> of case statement) and it would be great if someone would be prepared to
> drive this use case for physical samples who is actively working on sample
> collection and/or preservation.
>
>
>
> Please let me know if you or anyone else would like to work on this
> samples use case with this newly formed RDA group for Complex Citation.
> Currently I am listed against the Geophysics, Geochemistry and Samples use
> cases and I don?t have the bandwidth to do all three!!!
>
>
>
> Take care
>
>
>
>
>
> Lesley
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Esip-sample-curation <
> esip-sample-curation-bounces at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation-bounces at lists.esipfed.org>> on behalf of Mansur, Adam
> via Esip-sample-curation <esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org>>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 28 February 2023 at 5:02 am
> *To: *esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org> <
> esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org<mailto:esip-sample-curation at lists.esipfed.org>>
> *Subject: *[Esip-sample-curation] Sample list tool?
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I was reading over the sample citation guidance and had a comment that was
> way too long for the Google Doc. The current draft gives the following
> guidance for documenting long lists of samples:
>
> If your study uses many samples and would result in a prohibitively long
> list: create this table as a separate file, archive the table in an
> appropriate repository (such as Figshare, Zenodo, Dryad; or through
> institution- or domain-specific repositories), and link to the table.
>
> These lists would ideally be machine-readable so that interested parties
> could easily find a sample or track sample usage, but it's not clear to me
> that the current guidance will allow this. The main drawbacks that I see
> are:
>
> - Lists will use different formats and will not be validated, making
> it annoying to extract information from them
> - List citations will use different formats and DOIs, potentially
> making them difficult to pick out of a paper
> - Lists will be static and will not reflect changes in ownership or
> availability over time
> - Lists will not be used consistently across papers
>
>
>
> I'd like to think about building a tool to generate, store, and create
> DOIs for specimen lists instead. Lists would consist of only the most basic
> sample and ownership information (something like the DOI of the related
> publication plus the original sample identifiers, sample GUIDs, and owner
> information.) Where GUIDs with appropriate metadata are available (like at
> least some implementation of IGSNs), ownership information could be pulled
> in and updated. Since the data would all be in one place and linked to but
> not formally associated with a publication, it would also be possible to
> create and search sample lists for already published papers (for example,
> if an institution that has absorbed a collection would like to tag
> previously published papers that include those samples.) As with the
> current guidance, lists could be linked as references in new papers and the
> tool could supply a preferred citation to make them easier to find.
>
>
>
> I know this would be one more thing to build and maintain in perpetuity,
> and I'm sure I'm underestimating the difficulty of implementing it, but I
> do think this kind of tool could be helpful for research collections
> especially.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *Adam Mansur *(he/him)
>
> IT Specialist
>
> Department of Mineral Sciences
>
> *w* 202.633.1828 mansura at si.edu<mailto:mansura at si.edu>
>
>
>
> SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
>
> NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY
>
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