<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Dear Colleagues,<div><br></div><div>I am a member of the RDA Complex Citation WG and will happily be involved. </div><div><br></div><div>I would also like to point out that in the case of material samples, citation of lists can already be done, although maybe in a rather less sophisticated way. Put simply, IGSN IDs can be used for sample aggregates/collections, and so one could easily add an IGSN ID to each sample, and then one to the list whereby individuals are linked as children through the <a href="https://support.datacite.org/docs/connecting-to-works" target="_blank">relationType attribute</a> of the relatedIndentifier property in the DataCite Metadata Schema. A list built in this way would of course not have the flexibility envisioned by the 'reliquary' concept, but at least would/could be fairly standardized.</div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div>Rorie</div><div><br></div><div>P.S. I apologize that I am not actively engaged in the Sample Curation Cluster. I really would like to be as the outcomes of the work are very important for the IGSN ID. However, the meetings are currently at 05:00 JST and move to 04:00 JST for the coming months. If we can find a way for me to be more connected, it would be great. [Val, maybe you and I need a chat(?)]</div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>--</div><div><b>Rorie Edmunds PhD | Samples Community Manager | DataCite</b></div><div><i><a href="https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/japan/tokyo" target="_blank">Japan Standard Time</a></i></div><div><b>E</b>: <a href="mailto:rorie.edmunds@datacite.org" target="_blank">rorie.edmunds@datacite.org</a></div><div><b>W</b>: <a href="https://datacite.org" target="_blank">datacite.org</a> | <a href="https://blog.datacite.org/" target="_blank">Blog</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/datacite" target="_blank">Twitter</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/datacite" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a></div><div><a href="mailto:support@datacite.org" target="_blank">Support Desk</a> | <a href="https://support.datacite.org/" target="_blank">Support Site</a> | <a href="https://www.pidforum.org/" target="_blank">PID Forum</a></div><div><b>A</b>: DataCite -- Welfengarten 1B, 30167 Hannover, Germany</div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 at 09:14, <<a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation-request@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation-request@lists.esipfed.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Esip-sample-curation mailing list submissions to<br>
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1. Re: Sample list tool? (Joan Damerow)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 16:13:14 -0800<br>
From: Joan Damerow <<a href="mailto:JoanDamerow@lbl.gov" target="_blank">JoanDamerow@lbl.gov</a>><br>
To: Lesley Wyborn <<a href="mailto:Lesley.Wyborn@anu.edu.au" target="_blank">Lesley.Wyborn@anu.edu.au</a>><br>
Cc: "Mansur, Adam" <<a href="mailto:MansurA@si.edu" target="_blank">MansurA@si.edu</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a>>, Shelley Stall<br>
<<a href="mailto:SStall@agu.org" target="_blank">SStall@agu.org</a>>, Martina Stockhause <<a href="mailto:stockhause@dkrz.de" target="_blank">stockhause@dkrz.de</a>>, Deborah<br>
Agarwal <<a href="mailto:daagarwal@lbl.gov" target="_blank">daagarwal@lbl.gov</a>>, Kristina Vrouwenvelder<br>
<<a href="mailto:kvrouwenvelder@agu.org" target="_blank">kvrouwenvelder@agu.org</a>>, "Stephen M Richard (<a href="mailto:smrTucson@gmail.com" target="_blank">smrTucson@gmail.com</a>)"<br>
<<a href="mailto:smrtucson@gmail.com" target="_blank">smrtucson@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Esip-sample-curation] Sample list tool?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAHwcauvLXaFNW7cD7-z6MCRSENBMPCzmdBMuVWvG3k9fzCQ1RA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAHwcauvLXaFNW7cD7-z6MCRSENBMPCzmdBMuVWvG3k9fzCQ1RA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Yes, I am also interested in working through samples use cases for complex<br>
citations.<br>
<br>
Joan<br>
<br>
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 3:35?PM Lesley Wyborn via Esip-sample-curation <<br>
<a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi Adam<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I see you are already a member of the mailing list for the RDA Complex<br>
> Citation Group. <<a href="https://www.rd-alliance.org/node/74222/members" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.rd-alliance.org/node/74222/members</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> If you would like to progress the Physical Samples Use case that would be<br>
> great ? is anyone else in the ESIP samples cluster interested in doing<br>
> this. Is anyone from iSamples on this mailing list?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> At the moment, as you can see in the Complex Citation WG Case Statement<br>
> <<a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroup%2Fearth-space-and-environmental-science-complex-citations-working-group%2Fcase-statement%2Fearth&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222225143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UbJ732tGbfJ8V119799W9%2FRkp7gmOVI91HNjwldxCpE%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroup%2Fearth-space-and-environmental-science-complex-citations-working-group%2Fcase-statement%2Fearth&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222225143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UbJ732tGbfJ8V119799W9%2FRkp7gmOVI91HNjwldxCpE%3D&reserved=0</a>>,<br>
> the physical samples use case is woefully under developed relative to the<br>
> three main ones, so we would need to start to develop something to match<br>
> these.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> As the geochemistry use case is not really a topic for this samples list,<br>
> I will email you separately ? is anyone else interested in the geochemistry<br>
> use case we are trying to develop as part of this RDA Complex Citation<br>
> Group?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Take care<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Lesley<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From: *Mansur, Adam <<a href="mailto:MansurA@si.edu" target="_blank">MansurA@si.edu</a>><br>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 28 February 2023 at 8:53 am<br>
> *To: *Lesley Wyborn <<a href="mailto:Lesley.Wyborn@anu.edu.au" target="_blank">Lesley.Wyborn@anu.edu.au</a>>,<br>
> <a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a> <<br>
> <a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a>>, Shelley Stall <<a href="mailto:SStall@agu.org" target="_blank">SStall@agu.org</a>>,<br>
> Martina Stockhause <<a href="mailto:stockhause@dkrz.de" target="_blank">stockhause@dkrz.de</a>>, Deborah Agarwal <<br>
> <a href="mailto:daagarwal@lbl.gov" target="_blank">daagarwal@lbl.gov</a>>, Kristina Vrouwenvelder <<a href="mailto:kvrouwenvelder@agu.org" target="_blank">kvrouwenvelder@agu.org</a>><br>
> *Subject: *Re: Sample list tool?<br>
><br>
> Hi Lesley,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks for the info! Yes, we're talking about the same thing, except your<br>
> version seems to be much better developed. I would be interested in working<br>
> on the sample and geochemistry use cases in whatever capacity would be<br>
> useful.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Adam<br>
> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> *From:* Lesley Wyborn <<a href="mailto:Lesley.Wyborn@anu.edu.au" target="_blank">Lesley.Wyborn@anu.edu.au</a>><br>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2023 1:21 PM<br>
> *To:* Mansur, Adam <<a href="mailto:MansurA@si.edu" target="_blank">MansurA@si.edu</a>>;<br>
> <a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a> <<br>
> <a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a>>; Shelley Stall <<a href="mailto:SStall@agu.org" target="_blank">SStall@agu.org</a>>;<br>
> Martina Stockhause <<a href="mailto:stockhause@dkrz.de" target="_blank">stockhause@dkrz.de</a>>; Deborah Agarwal <<br>
> <a href="mailto:daagarwal@lbl.gov" target="_blank">daagarwal@lbl.gov</a>>; Kristina Vrouwenvelder <<a href="mailto:kvrouwenvelder@agu.org" target="_blank">kvrouwenvelder@agu.org</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: Sample list tool?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *External Email - Exercise Caution*<br>
><br>
> HI Adam<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks for this suggestion.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I would draw your attention to the newly formed Research Data Alliance<br>
> Complex Citation Working Group<br>
> <<a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroups%2Fcomplex-citations-working-group&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222068920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1ks3iJp2wFa%2BWj0UyuBnkTtA5ka5Q0bZrHIpJiO99fU%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroups%2Fcomplex-citations-working-group&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222068920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1ks3iJp2wFa%2BWj0UyuBnkTtA5ka5Q0bZrHIpJiO99fU%3D&reserved=0</a>>.<br>
> I have cc?ed on my email my group co- chairs (Shelley, Martina, Deb)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> The physical samples use case is listed in the Complex Citation WG Case<br>
> Statement<br>
> <<a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroup%2Fearth-space-and-environmental-science-complex-citations-working-group%2Fcase-statement%2Fearth&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222225143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UbJ732tGbfJ8V119799W9%2FRkp7gmOVI91HNjwldxCpE%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fgroup%2Fearth-space-and-environmental-science-complex-citations-working-group%2Fcase-statement%2Fearth&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222225143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UbJ732tGbfJ8V119799W9%2FRkp7gmOVI91HNjwldxCpE%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
> and will also be discussed in the upcoming RDA P20 Session - Complex<br>
> Citation WG Session<br>
> <<a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fplenaries%2Frda-20th-plenary-meeting-gothenburg-hybrid%2Fcomplex-citations-earth-and-space-sciences&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222225143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a33%2FalYSGx8t5yPR0YUK7pMAx%2FVe1%2B8E0VwhQyQZOgc%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rd-alliance.org%2Fplenaries%2Frda-20th-plenary-meeting-gothenburg-hybrid%2Fcomplex-citations-earth-and-space-sciences&data=05%7C01%7CLesley.Wyborn%40anu.edu.au%7Cb5b839df478b4919521c08db190d1586%7Ce37d725cab5c46249ae5f0533e486437%7C0%7C0%7C638131316222225143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a33%2FalYSGx8t5yPR0YUK7pMAx%2FVe1%2B8E0VwhQyQZOgc%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
> .<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I have been the one that put forward a use case for physical samples ?<br>
> that is, we need to create a ?reliquary? that references say hundreds of<br>
> samples each with their own DOI/PID. A reliquary itself has a DOI/PID, but<br>
> all samples within the reliquary can be found, referenced and cited so that<br>
> the collector of the sample, the curator of the sample and the funder of<br>
> any part of the samples life cycle (including from the field to the<br>
> museum/sample repository) can be credited and both funders and researchers<br>
> can measure the use and impact of their research<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I think we are talking about the same thing.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> We have quite a community behind this Complex Citation WG (see list at end<br>
> of case statement) and it would be great if someone would be prepared to<br>
> drive this use case for physical samples who is actively working on sample<br>
> collection and/or preservation.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Please let me know if you or anyone else would like to work on this<br>
> samples use case with this newly formed RDA group for Complex Citation.<br>
> Currently I am listed against the Geophysics, Geochemistry and Samples use<br>
> cases and I don?t have the bandwidth to do all three!!!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Take care<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Lesley<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From: *Esip-sample-curation <<br>
> <a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation-bounces@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation-bounces@lists.esipfed.org</a>> on behalf of Mansur, Adam<br>
> via Esip-sample-curation <<a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a>><br>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 28 February 2023 at 5:02 am<br>
> *To: *<a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a> <<br>
> <a href="mailto:esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org" target="_blank">esip-sample-curation@lists.esipfed.org</a>><br>
> *Subject: *[Esip-sample-curation] Sample list tool?<br>
><br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I was reading over the sample citation guidance and had a comment that was<br>
> way too long for the Google Doc. The current draft gives the following<br>
> guidance for documenting long lists of samples:<br>
><br>
> If your study uses many samples and would result in a prohibitively long<br>
> list: create this table as a separate file, archive the table in an<br>
> appropriate repository (such as Figshare, Zenodo, Dryad; or through<br>
> institution- or domain-specific repositories), and link to the table.<br>
><br>
> These lists would ideally be machine-readable so that interested parties<br>
> could easily find a sample or track sample usage, but it's not clear to me<br>
> that the current guidance will allow this. The main drawbacks that I see<br>
> are:<br>
><br>
> - Lists will use different formats and will not be validated, making<br>
> it annoying to extract information from them<br>
> - List citations will use different formats and DOIs, potentially<br>
> making them difficult to pick out of a paper<br>
> - Lists will be static and will not reflect changes in ownership or<br>
> availability over time<br>
> - Lists will not be used consistently across papers<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I'd like to think about building a tool to generate, store, and create<br>
> DOIs for specimen lists instead. Lists would consist of only the most basic<br>
> sample and ownership information (something like the DOI of the related<br>
> publication plus the original sample identifiers, sample GUIDs, and owner<br>
> information.) Where GUIDs with appropriate metadata are available (like at<br>
> least some implementation of IGSNs), ownership information could be pulled<br>
> in and updated. Since the data would all be in one place and linked to but<br>
> not formally associated with a publication, it would also be possible to<br>
> create and search sample lists for already published papers (for example,<br>
> if an institution that has absorbed a collection would like to tag<br>
> previously published papers that include those samples.) As with the<br>
> current guidance, lists could be linked as references in new papers and the<br>
> tool could supply a preferred citation to make them easier to find.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I know this would be one more thing to build and maintain in perpetuity,<br>
> and I'm sure I'm underestimating the difficulty of implementing it, but I<br>
> do think this kind of tool could be helpful for research collections<br>
> especially.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
><br>
> Adam<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Adam Mansur *(he/him)<br>
><br>
> IT Specialist<br>
><br>
> Department of Mineral Sciences<br>
><br>
> *w* 202.633.1828 <a href="mailto:mansura@si.edu" target="_blank">mansura@si.edu</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION<br>
><br>
> NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY<br>
><br>
> Facebook<br>
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