[esip-semanticweb] Semantic Web Portal discussion was - Next Sem Web Call - Tomorrow 10/27
Brandon Whitehead
b.whitehead at auckland.ac.nz
Mon Nov 2 01:24:52 EST 2015
That was meant to be addressed to John and List.
Not trying to single you out, John.
/Brandon
On 11/02/2015 06:55 PM, Brandon Whitehead via esip-semanticweb wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I'm changing the subject on this thread in an effort to keep the
> discussion from getting lost in ether.
>
> I've been writing a bit about this topic recently so I'd like to chime
> in while some of this is still fresh in my mind.
>
> I'm not sure about limiting factors, but there are definitely open
> questions in the field, as well as how `we' as a community might
> contribute to any potential answers.
>
> Some questions that I have (which appear to overlap quite a bit with
> Soren's) are as follows:
>
> 1) Who maintains the ontology once it's released into the wild (or
> uploaded to a portal)? I mean absolutely no disrespect in pointing out
> (as an example) that many links on the mmi portal are dead. And that is
> just a link to project or `code'. What about the ontology?
>
> 2) Who owns the ontology once it is...portaled? Do ontologies need a
> license? Do we treat it as code, or IP, or...both?
>
> 3) To my recollection (and it has been a while since I investigated this
> particular issue) BioPortal `matches' based on a tokenised string match.
> Does BioPortal or MMI ORR have the capability to `match' or suggest
> similar classes, properties, etc.? (i.e. intensional and extensional
> relationship structures)
>
> 4) Perhaps similarly to the previous question, how do we keep track of
> conceptual drift?
>
> 5) How do we verify and validate these structures (ontology efficacy)?
> (i.e. if an ontology is created to do some thing, x; who verifies it
> actually does, x?)
>
> There are, of course, others. These are meant to start (well, continue)
> the conversation.
>
> One big question that keeps jumping out me is, who decides? Who gets to
> decide any or all of these things? Is it a person? A committee? How
> are they empowered?
>
> As a final discussion point, the Bioinformatics community (down the road
> from me) have a full time staffed position (I believe they have 2,
> actually) working as a `curator'. Their job is to make sure all the
> models submitted for publication (and archive in their data structure)
> meet certain criteria and maintain all the model versions, etc. I only
> present it here as I find it is an interesting solution to some similar
> problems they were dealing with.
>
> Apologies. This got away from me a bit. Hopefully it's still somewhat
> coherent.
>
> Kia Ora,
> /Brandon
> ------
> Brandon Whitehead, GISP
> ESIP Student Fellow | Semantic Web Cluster
>
> Centre for eResearch &
> School of Environment
> The University of Auckland | Te Whare Wānanga o Tàmaki Makaurau
> m: +64 21835519
>
>
> On 11/02/2015 04:52 PM, John Graybeal via esip-semanticweb wrote:
>>> I'd like to suggest, as a generalist with no institutional stakes in
>>> this, that we leave a place for alternatives to the standard web
>>> portal with an upload form and a linear search. My sense is that we're
>>> hitting the limits of those …
>>
>> Hi Soren,
>>
>> With my BioPortal hat on (as of today, I'm the lead of the BioPortal
>> project -- please be nice to me in this role for a while :->), I'd like
>> to explore what you mean by this.
>>
>> A 'standard web portal' can cover a wide ground, with APIs and all sort
>> of other things, and still have an upload form and a 'linear' (=
>> simple?) search. But it can also provide many other things -- these
>> things aren't a constraint. I know BioPortal is very interested in
>> pursuing these directions.
>>
>> And if I slip my MMI ORR hat on for a sec, it has supported
>> straightforward authorship, credit, and provenance metadata entry since
>> it started; supporting other features would not be hard to add.
>>
>> So can you spell out what exactly is the limiting factor you are
>> concerned about? Are you just calling out high-functioning capabilities
>> like faceted search and community-anointed ontologies? Or is it more of
>> the cultural, workflow, and publication social practices?
>>
>> John
>>
>> P.S. I've included my Stanford contact info below, and my email there is
>> jgraybeal at stanford.com <mailto:jgraybeal at stanford.com>. BioPortal
>> questions should be directed to the usual support lists, or to me at
>> that address. While I try to keep up with my *other* work mail
>> (jbgraybeal at mindspring.com <mailto:jbgraybeal at mindspring.com>, the one I
>> have on all these lists) daily, but it's tough.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>> John Graybeal
>> Technical Program Manager
>> Center for Expanded Data Annotation and Retrieval / NCBO BioPortal
>> Biomedical Informatics Research Division
>> Stanford University School of Medicine
>> 650-736-1632
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 11:14, soren scott via esip-semanticweb
>> <esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org
>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> Line, agreed - ownership, maintainership, preservation,
>>> discoverability, credit and citations... Longterm financial support.
>>>
>>> I'd like to suggest, as a generalist with no institutional stakes in
>>> this, that we leave a place for alternatives to the standard web
>>> portal with an upload form and a linear search. My sense is that we're
>>> hitting the limits of those as we deal with graph data, bigger data
>>> stores and the need to signal more things (quality, trust, authorship,
>>> credit, etc). Longer term concerns but we are talking about changing
>>> the culture and technology we use needs to support that. Stepping off
>>> the soapbox now.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Soren
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 8:00 PM, Pouchard, Line C <pouchard at purdue.edu
>>> <mailto:pouchard at purdue.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Soren:
>>>
>>> This is an important topic, well worth exploring, and find
>>> solutions to. We have encountered that with the ESIP Semantic Web
>>> Portal, where people can add their ontologies or rely on the
>>> portal administrators to do so. The portal software requires a
>>> contact person and email, and it’s not always clear who that
>>> should be. In addition, when ontologies are extended, we get into
>>> versioning issues that bear on governance: for instance, what
>>> happens when a new version changes “ownership”?
>>>
>>> —
>>> Line Pouchard, PhD
>>> Assistant Professor, Purdue Libraries
>>> Computational Science Information Specialist
>>> Stewart Center, Room 345____
>>> 504 W. State Street____
>>> West Lafayette, IN 47907-2058
>>> linepouchard at gmail.com <mailto:linepouchard at gmail.com> (alternate
>>> email)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: esip-semanticweb <esip-semanticweb-bounces at lists.esipfed.org
>>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb-bounces at lists.esipfed.org>> on behalf of
>>> soren scott via esip-semanticweb
>>> <esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org
>>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org>>
>>> Reply-To: soren scott <sorenscott at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:sorenscott at gmail.com>>
>>> Date: Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 2:06 PM
>>> To: Nancy Hoebelheinrich <nhoebel at kmotifs.com
>>> <mailto:nhoebel at kmotifs.com>>
>>> Cc: ESIP Semantic Web Cluster <esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org
>>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [esip-semanticweb] Next Sem Web Call - Tomorrow 10/27
>>>
>>> I'm not sure we'd get all of the interested parties to the semweb
>>> business meeting. Just given the timing and all of these kinds of
>>> discussions independently ramping up at the same time, it would be
>>> beneficial to have a kind of MOU for the spring and then something
>>> more structured at the summer meeting. Identify who's in what
>>> community WG/IG/cluster to communicate across those parties on the
>>> governance activities throughout the spring.
>>>
>>> Soren
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Nancy Hoebelheinrich
>>> <nhoebel at kmotifs.com <mailto:nhoebel at kmotifs.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree that this would be a good session. Perhaps we could
>>> start the discussion at a SemWeb planning discussion at Winter
>>> mtg, then bring in people from other ontologies/ organizations
>>> to discuss / present for summer? ____
>>>
>>> Nancy____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> <image001.png> <https://kmotifs.com/>____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> Nancy J. Hoebelheinrich____
>>>
>>> Information Analyst/Principal____
>>>
>>> nhoebel at kmotifs.com <mailto:nhoebel at kmotifs.com>____
>>>
>>> San Mateo, CA 94401____
>>>
>>> (v) 650-302-4493 <tel:650-302-4493>____
>>>
>>> (f) 650-745-3333 <tel:650-745-3333>____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> *From:*esip-semanticweb
>>> [mailto:esip-semanticweb-bounces at lists.esipfed.org
>>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb-bounces at lists.esipfed.org>] *On
>>> Behalf Of *James Gallagher via esip-semanticweb
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 29, 2015 10:02 AM
>>> *To:* soren scott
>>> *Cc:* ESIP Semantic Web Cluster
>>> *Subject:* Re: [esip-semanticweb] Next Sem Web Call - Tomorrow
>>> 10/27____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2015, at 9:18 AM, soren scott via
>>> esip-semanticweb <esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org
>>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org>> wrote:____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> Very late to add to the session topics but one to consider
>>> at least for the summer:____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> The governance of ontologies, vocabularies, and other
>>> shared resources has been coming up across communities
>>> (RDA, EarthCube, ESIP, etc) and across domains (semantic
>>> web, software sustainability, documentation, and others).
>>> The conversations I've been involved with across those
>>> areas are often much the same so what can we share about
>>> what works and what doesn't? What are the systems that
>>> support some of those governance requirements? And our
>>> larger who should be responsible for managing these
>>> systems and the objects within?____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> I think this would be an excellent session; summer, winter or
>>> both.____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> 1+____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> James____
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> (I include documentation here for things such as code lists
>>> (just another structured vocabulary) and schemas.)____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> Cheers,____
>>>
>>> Soren____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Tom Narock via
>>> esip-semanticweb <esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org
>>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org>> wrote:____
>>>
>>> Reminder that our next ESIP Semantic Web Cluster call is
>>> tomorrow, 10/27, at 4pm Eastern time. Topics for discussion
>>> are the Semantic Web strategic plan and sessions for the
>>> upcoming Winter meeting.
>>>
>>> Let me know if you have any additional topics to add to the
>>> agenda.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tom
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> esip-semanticweb mailing list
>>> esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org
>>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org>
>>>
>>> http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/esip-semanticweb____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> esip-semanticweb mailing list
>>> esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org
>>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org>
>>>
>>> http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/esip-semanticweb____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> --____
>>>
>>> James Gallagher
>>> jgallagher at opendap.org <mailto:jgallagher at opendap.org>____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org
>>> <mailto:esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org>
>>> http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/esip-semanticweb
>>
>>
>>
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