[esip-semantictech] Ontology portal recommendati

Tue May 24 09:31:24 EDT 2016

John, I echo you entirely!

I haven't been able to keep up with much of the recent literature, but I'm
thinking this discussion can be translated into a paper somehow.  Maybe
something for Eos which would also announce the formation of the Semantic
Technologies Committee to the broader community outside of ESIP?

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 8:58 PM, John Graybeal via esip-semanticweb <
esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org> wrote:

> This conversation is so on point. Thank you Ruth for being the poster
> child (alas) and explaining things so well.
>
> Comments in-line…
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 23, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Mcgibbney, Lewis J (398M) via
> esip-semanticweb <esip-semanticweb at lists.esipfed.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ruth,
> >
> >
> >> On 5/23/16, 10:58 AM, "Ruth Duerr" <ruth.duerr3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Lewis,
> >>
> >> I hadn¹t forgotten that.
> >
> > :)
> >
> >> That may resolve the identifier issue (at least in the short term -
> >> maybe) but not the question of where should the ontologies live and be
> >> curated from for the long term and how does the field guarantee
> long-term
> >> access?
> >
> > Honestly I think that your particular case demonstrates that a) long term
> > guarantees are difficult to find/achieve, and b) the ¹safest¹ tactic is
> > probably compromiseŠ at least until we (ESIP Semantic Tech Committee) can
> > agree on the platform through which to facilitate what you are after.
>
> Yes, Committee needs to set a sustainable policy direction. Add to that
> (a) ESIP as a whole (committing to the repository) and (b) funding
> organizations (for ongoing support).
>
> >> Copies of my ontologies are both on github which is where Google
> migrated
> >> them when they took Google Code down and in the ESIP semantic portal;
> but
> >> what is the real "right solution?  Is github sufficient?
> >
> > For source code management yes. For resolving URI¹sŠ No. You/we should be
> > using a semantic data portal.
> >
> >> If so, then does ESIP need a semantic repository?
> >
> > Well, IMHO the semantic repository is more than just hosting ontologies.
> > It is a critical piece of infrastructure which is topically relevant,
> > supports development and collaboration and also enables community growth
> > here @ESIP.
>
> Concur. It also provides key semantic services (e.g., semantic search,
> versioning, resolution, mapping, and inferencing), and synergistic social
> network effects.
> >
> >> Do we need both (the ³Lots of Copies Keeps Stuff Safe" concept says
> >> probably yes); but who is going to curate these and keep both copies in
> >> sync for the long term.  Yes, I can do so now (though unfunded); but
> that
> >> won¹t last forever.
> >
> > I agree. Hence the reason that I say the comment grown aspect is
> critical.
> > I would suggest that simple scripts are written to merely poll a Github
> > master branch and pull in the most recent commit into the ESIP Semantic
> > Repository. The ability to do this would either be standalone e.g. A
> local
> > script, or else could be built in to the underlying Semantic Repository
> > itself.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I submit that my experience to date says not to trust any external
> >> provider even if they say that they are working to provide long term
> >> support.  I mean really, I used Google code to make the ontologies
> public
> >> and I used PURL¹s for all the URL¹s so that I could redirect the URL¹s
> if
> >> the ontologies needed to be moved somewhere else.  The problem is that I
> >> no longer can redirect them since OCLC is abandoning PURL.org.
> >
> > Yes. Bloody frustrating indeed and to make it worse, the more code you
> > write the more of a PITA this issue becomes.
>
> Not all of your experience supports that. MMI's ORR still supports all its
> content and resolution, as does NCBO's BioPortal. But I agree that Google
> Code and purl.org (can't believe they'd let that fall down!) are object
> lessons, alas.
> >
> >> So this experiment in providing long term access to semantic resources
> >> failed because none of the tools lasted longer than 3 yearsŠ  That
> >> doesn¹t give great confidence that the concept of reusable semantic
> >> resources has a chance of ever happening in the Earth sciences.
> >
> > Well I think that GoogleCode, Github, PURL, etc are not under control of
> > ESIP. It¹s understandably frustrating but not really ESIP or wider Earth
> > Science communities fault.
>
> Hmmm. Is the argument that if ESIP commits to a service we can be
> confident In its long-term (defined as?) survival? I like to think MMI's
> commitment is like that, of course.
>
> But what we'll really need is a permanent endowment dedicated to providing
> the ongoing funds indefinitely. This isn't crazy, but will take time,
> experience, and advocacy.
>
> Meanwhile, in a world with such short and driven technology cycles, we'll
> have to continue trying these experiments—on both client and server
> sides—to improve persistence and usability of data beyond our personal
> commitment to them.
>
> And you, and ESIP, both get kudos for experimenting so far. I've found all
> the input very helpful and constructive. The fact ESIP has a resourced
> semantic Committee puts it in a leadership position—I hope it is (we are)
> able to step up to that.
>
> John
>
>
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